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February 2004

MCSEs Speak Out

Has Microsoft abandoned them?
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In "The Soul of Windows Revisited," September 2003, http://www.winnetmag.com, InstantDoc ID 39749, I describe Microsoft's attempts to reach out to the Windows IT community. First, I discuss Microsoft's new advertising that speaks to both IT and business professionals. Second, I describe Microsoft's efforts to establish an IT professional organization that would foster Windows community development through in-person events at the regional level. I applaud Microsoft's efforts on both accounts.

As a result of that column, I received a flood of email messages from MCSEs who complained that Microsoft has abandoned them as a group. From 1997 to 2000, the technology and Windows NT markets expanded rapidly. Any person with a reasonable technical background could get an MCSE certification and demand a $14,000 annual salary increase (on average). The MCSE gold rush was rampant, and the payoff was almost immediate. But shortly after the tech bubble burst in 2001, many MCSEs found themselves out of work and others took salary cuts to stay employed. Such is life.

However, if higher salaries are no longer the reward for getting an MCSE certification, then what's the incentive? Many MCSEs told me that they want Microsoft to recognize their efforts in getting their certifications and keeping them current. Specifically, these MCSEs would like to receive a TechNet subscription, which includes a monthly CD-ROM and access to subscriber-only resources on the TechNet Web site. In addition, they would like to receive discounts on support calls to Microsoft. Currently, Microsoft provides many of these benefits to Microsoft Most Valuable Professionals (MVPs), individuals who have been recognized for making substantial contributions to the Microsoft-related product communities. Microsoft recently recognized me as the first MVP in the storage-related product area, and I can verify that Microsoft rewards MVPs with some of these items.

Several of my friends have spent a lot of time and money earning their MCSE certifications. They believe—and I agree—that they're making a solid contribution to the Windows IT community by staying current on their certifications. They say that a TechNet subscription would be a great asset in their ongoing training and certification efforts. The annual cost of a single-user TechNet Plus subscription, which includes beta software and membership in a private TechNet newsgroup, is $529. I realize that the TechNet group isn't running a charity, but I think investing in MCSEs who have invested in Microsoft is a fair trade. I'm advocating that Microsoft provide TechNet subscriptions only to individuals who have current MCSE certifications, not to people who have let their certifications fall behind.

By the time you read this article, I hope the tech market will be completely out of its slump and that companies will have started to hire MCSEs again in earnest. But even if the industry is still lagging, I believe we need to again encourage investment in the Windows IT community. I want to be able to wholeheartedly recommend the Windows IT community as a great place to build an IT career and to say that Microsoft will reward the investment of time and money.

End of Article



Reader Comments
I think with the big boom when all people got cerftified with tools like trandumper, transenders etc most MCSE certified people only got it on paper but without technical background. They easelie got a job and although they don't know sh*t about the reallive problems and solutions etc they stil got big paychecks. I noticed that since 2003 that has changed, people get asked technical questions at our work before they are allowed in. If they fail simple questions how to make a net use or how to fix a WINS database etc they are not welcome. The MCSE certification is in my eyes just a beginning then the jobyears count and the expirience you have.

with kind regards.


hans.straat February 09, 2004


Unfortunately MCSE certs are going to be worthless in the long haul. I've seen several people memorize the information from practice tests and get their MCSE yet were not be able to answer a simple AD question. I agree that Microsoft needs to reward MCSE's but also needs to change the training and testing. Not all companies use Terminal and Certificate services yet an MCSE-wannabe has to study for them. The MCSE labs need to be improved for those of us that are "hands-on" and just can't memorize items long enough to pass the test. As usual Microsoft is making big bucks with shoddy software and support and we IT types suffer.

Jeff Gagne February 10, 2004


Regarding "hans.straat"'s comment: Hans has a point, but it is not directly related to what Mark Smith was talking about. Mark is suggesting that Microsoft back up the very people whom it had certified and support them. He is not saying (although I do also agree) that many MCSEs out there are simply "paper MCSEs" - a completely different point. Now, are there paper MCSEs out there who are itching for hands-on experience? Of course. But the difference is in the attitude. The paper MCSE says, "All I need to get the big bucks is right here in this sliver of paper, which I got through cheating and memorizing exam answers." The *REAL* MCSE says, "Knowledge and hands-on experience go hand-in-hand." Only time will tell what kind of MCSE one encounters from day to day.

Simon Chang February 11, 2004


I agree with you 100%.
Back in '98 i passed the NT4 exams, up until now i haven't got a real intensive from Microsoft for the Win2k upgrade, as well as for the Win2k3 exams.
I really think MS should start contributing back to those MCSE guys, in return for their contribution to MS (ie: exam high prices).

Ronen February 24, 2004


How about this: I have been a non-MCSE administering a small Windows 2000 domain with Lotus Notes, Captaris RightFax, and Citrix for 6 years. In my situation, I have to not only deal with the day-to-day of client machines breaking down, but I also have to answer silly questions (i.e. when a user asks "what is my username?") about mundane subjects. My boss (a Controller) has no clue what kind of network I have set up nor what powerful options I have given to our user community. They should be so lucky that their only burning question from time-to-time is "what is my username?"

I have already completed my A+ and my Network + certification, and, as of tomorrow, I am going to begin classes to complete my MCSE 2003 certification. In these classes, there are people ranging from those who are like me, self-taught and eager to learn, to those who are barely able to operate a mouse and to click on the correct check-box or button in a Windows environment.

At the end of the day, I am hoping that my six years of Network Admin experience will allow me to leave my present job for a new one. I also am aware that my six years experience is all I have going for me in a competative job market.

It would be nice if I were to encounter a prospective employer who found my resume to be a good outline of the kind of professional they want--a person who took the time to be certified; a person who, before he was certified, did what he could to effectively run a network who ingenously used the few tools at his disposal to get the job done; and a person who is eager to expand his knowledge of this trade to become good at what he does in exchange for decent pay. Such dedication makes for an excellent candidate.

I also have no illusions about the Ciscos, the CompTIA's and the Microsofts of the world who have you spend thousands to prepare and to take their certification exams. To them, you are "enrolled" in their program and enrollments equal $$$$'s

The benefit to MCSE's and other certified professions should be realized from two avenues: from the certificate vendor (for lack of a better word) and from the employers--current and future. MCSE's should be recognized by the "vendors" like Microsoft and given more than privaledged access to a newsgroup or two. In addition, present employers should give MCSE's the bump in salary they deserve similar to that of a college graduate--especially if they have acheived what I have on their own. Prospective employers do themselves a disservice simply scanning and sorting resumes based on keywords searching for those who are immersed in the alphabet soup of certifications--many of which really amount to nothing. These folks should invest the extra money to hire a recruiter experienced in asking the correct questions of their applicants.

Were employers and vendors to do these simple things at minimal cost, the acheivement that is receiving a certification will not be minimized and really will count for something in both the employee/certificant's career. That, in turn, will building corporate and product loyalty. The employers will see good performance from the certified employees, the employees will realize tangible rewards for their efforts, and Microsoft will be on the road to planting the long-lasting seeds of product loyalty--not just because they are the biggest, but because they have a group of Admins out there who realize that they are are good as the TVand magazine ads say they are.

Jorge Herrera March 14, 2004


Personally I dont' understand why subscription to technet is such a big deal to many people. We had the subscription for about 3 years before we canceled it. The reason:
1. Their search engine is complete junk. I can find answers faster by using google technet search then I can with the technet software.
2. Beta software has sooo many bugs in it that it's not even worth trying until the final product comes out.
Getting a discount may be great but most of my problems can be resolvec by either google or jsifaq.
As for the cert itself. I think it's overrated and degrading to IT veterans. WHY? Because companies are more eager to hire someone with MCSE and no experience and then pay them half of what someone with 5 or more years of experience would expect.
However, anyone with experience AND MCSE has far more value over experience without the cert.

Russ T March 26, 2004


<P>I agree with Mark Smith's comments in Fast Forward: "MCSEs Speak Out" (February 2004, InstantDoc ID 41392) about Microsoft's lack of support for MCSEs. My Windows 2000 and Windows NT 4.0 MCSE certifications are current, and I'm in the process of upgrading to a Windows Server 2003 MCSE. Companies considered my NT 4.0 MCSE valuable in its day, but my Win2K MCSE just doesn't command the same recognition and value. However, my Novell NetWare 5.0 and </P>

<P>NetWare 4.11 CNE certifications have brought major benefits to my company and to me. Novell gives me discounted technical support, the Novell Knowledgebase free on CD-ROM, and a complete set of current evaluation software for my company and me to test. Novell updates the evaluation software a couple of times a year and only charges me $15 for shipping and handling. I believe Microsoft should take a cue from the support and recognition that Novell gives to its CNEs. If it did so, the MCSE would become more valuable both to professionals being certified and also to their employers and clients. As far as paper MCSEs go, I don't believe that people with certification but no experience get very far with their limited knowledge. Yes, the situation is a problem, but I believe it's a problem not solely for Microsoft but rather for the entire certification industry.</P>

<P CLASS="Byline">—Jason A. Kinder<BR>


Jason A. Kinder April 27, 2004


<P>I enjoyed Mark Smith's "MCSEs Speak Out." I wish Microsoft would create a certification path similar to that of Cisco Systems' Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert (CCIE). I have visions of a Master MCSE certification, for which applicants must demonstrate their skills in a lab. The written portion of the test would remain as it is now, and the lab portion would require a true hands-on demonstration of deployment, administration, and problem-resolution knowledge over a 2- to 3-day period under the eye of Microsoft engineers. The Master MCSE would elevate the pedestrian status of the MCSE, reclaim respect for the certification, and generate esprit de corps among certification holders. No more brain dumps, test kings, or abuse of the Microsoft certification system.</P>
<P CLASS="Byline">—Paul Wetty<BR>

Paul Wetty April 27, 2004


I think with the comming of the so called Paper mcse people who got it by braindumps the value of the certification dropped. Specially with the big boom company's got them in for big cashflows while they didn't understood really what they were doing but earning big bugs. Now aday's it's required again to be certified but at the company I work for they also screen your knownledge deeply and when you can't answer it you don't get the job.

hans straat
the netherlands

hans straat May 10, 2004


I agree with Paul, Master MCSE sounds good to me! My company pays for the TechNet subscription so it wouldn't help me out a lot. I'm a MCSE for NT 4.0, 2000, and 2003 and right now I don't feel "loved" by Microsoft. Not sure how Bill can fix it though...

Jose Henrique May 12, 2004


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